Comments on: Whose City is it anyways? http://www.canadasdebate.com/2007/08/10/whose-city-is-it-anyways/ Thu, 08 Jan 2009 23:03:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.6 Trouble on Whose City is it anyways?by: http://www.canadasdebate.com/2007/08/10/whose-city-is-it-anyways/#comment-2059 Mon, 13 Aug 2007 02:08:30 +0000 http://www.canadasdebate.com/2007/08/10/whose-city-is-it-anyways/#comment-2059 I'm not sure what you were expecting Joe. When the opportunity to deflect payment arises it is always pursued. Such is the life of mature centralized societies. The problem we need to discuss is what happens when payment comes due and someone asks for another taxation scheme? I’m not sure what you were expecting Joe. When the opportunity to deflect payment arises it is always pursued. Such is the life of mature centralized societies. The problem we need to discuss is what happens when payment comes due and someone asks for another taxation scheme?

]]> Joseph on Whose City is it anyways?by: http://www.canadasdebate.com/2007/08/10/whose-city-is-it-anyways/#comment-2042 Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:09:54 +0000 http://www.canadasdebate.com/2007/08/10/whose-city-is-it-anyways/#comment-2042 I'm not sure where you get your information, but the municipal budget is not $761 million. It's approximately $2 billion. As for cutting police services; I am not opposed to more reasonable funding levels for the cops, but a 50% reduction is fairly ridiculous; and a salary reduction for the cops is only fair if everyone else on the city payroll takes a MASSIVE pay cut. Police officers work very hard and have very dangerous jobs, and deserve compensation. I have written on the subject of restorative justice and the social dynamics of crime, but to think that you could cut police spending <strong>in half</strong> without serious problems is naive in the extreme. I’m not sure where you get your information, but the municipal budget is not $761 million. It’s approximately $2 billion.

As for cutting police services; I am not opposed to more reasonable funding levels for the cops, but a 50% reduction is fairly ridiculous; and a salary reduction for the cops is only fair if everyone else on the city payroll takes a MASSIVE pay cut. Police officers work very hard and have very dangerous jobs, and deserve compensation.

I have written on the subject of restorative justice and the social dynamics of crime, but to think that you could cut police spending in half without serious problems is naive in the extreme.

]]> klara palotay on Whose City is it anyways?by: http://www.canadasdebate.com/2007/08/10/whose-city-is-it-anyways/#comment-2040 Sat, 11 Aug 2007 08:06:18 +0000 http://www.canadasdebate.com/2007/08/10/whose-city-is-it-anyways/#comment-2040 In my opinion the downloading was criminal but so is the fact that the police budget is 531 million a year out of a budget of 761 million. This is obscene. The police salaries should be reduced and the police budget reduced to half. For that money we could fix social housing, get the kids off the streets by providing well paying part and full time jobs and restoring community centers and provide activities for free. It would instantly reduce youth crime and make that many policemen dispensable. The TTC gets 170 million a year while the police takes in three times as much. With a 50% cut to police services, we could easily build subways and fix all the outstanding infrastructure problems. Half the work the police do are redundant, e.g. giving parking tickets and just cruising around on an 8 hour shift. Crime is down considerably according to statistics and we should not hire new police every time there is a shooting someplace. All those crime areas should have teams of policemen patrolling the area on foot and get to know the people well. That is called good policing and providing role models by being kind but firm, wise and fatherly for our disaffected youth. There are more police here than in a police state. I am ashamed and appalled that a paramilitary squad whose main interest is watching each other's welfare is more important than the public at large. I would like all that wasted money used for helping people to live better and improve themselves, rather than being punished and often incarcerated for petty crimes. Worth thinking about perhaps? In my opinion the downloading was criminal but so is the fact that the police budget is 531 million a year out of a budget of 761 million. This is obscene. The police salaries should be reduced and the police budget reduced to half. For that money we could fix social housing, get the kids off the streets by providing well paying part and full time jobs and restoring community centers and provide activities for free. It would instantly reduce youth crime and make that many policemen dispensable. The TTC gets 170 million a year while the police takes in three times as much. With a 50% cut to police services, we could easily build subways and fix all the outstanding infrastructure problems. Half the work the police do are redundant, e.g. giving parking tickets and just cruising around on an 8 hour shift. Crime is down considerably according to statistics and we should not hire new police every time there is a shooting someplace. All those crime areas should have teams of policemen patrolling the area on foot and get to know the people well. That is called good policing and providing role models by being kind but firm, wise and fatherly for our disaffected youth. There are more police here than in a police state. I am ashamed and appalled that a paramilitary squad whose main interest is watching each other’s welfare is more important than the public at large. I would like all that wasted money used for helping people to live better and improve themselves, rather than being punished and often incarcerated for petty crimes. Worth thinking about perhaps?

]]> Joseph on Whose City is it anyways?by: http://www.canadasdebate.com/2007/08/10/whose-city-is-it-anyways/#comment-2036 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 22:27:28 +0000 http://www.canadasdebate.com/2007/08/10/whose-city-is-it-anyways/#comment-2036 I've seen that argument a lot Cam, and there is a problem with it. Yes, municipal leaders did abdicate their responsibility to plan for the long term consequences of downloading; but tax increases of the order seen in the 905 region would have had a disastrous effect on property owners in Toronto. Property values in Toronto are anywhere from 2-8 times higher in Toronto than in surrounding regions. Take my parents for example; they (and I until August 25th) live in a nice but modest three bedroom house in the city. If Toronto's property taxes had escalated in lockstep with Pickering's for example, their tax burden would be close to $15,000 a year, and that is not within their means. The fact is that Ontario is repeating a pattern often seen in the U.S. A states cut services during the 70's and 80's municipalities began picking up the tab, and the result was the de-urbanization of many major cities. There are no simple solutions to the sort of problems that Toronto has (or continue to) faced, nor can we easily point fingers. Downloading was directed in a disproportional degree upon Toronto (and lest anyone think that's Toronto-centrism talking, the numbers back it up), but that fiasco was symptomatic of a larger trend, the "pass the buck" conservatism which swept this province starting in the early 90's. I’ve seen that argument a lot Cam, and there is a problem with it. Yes, municipal leaders did abdicate their responsibility to plan for the long term consequences of downloading; but tax increases of the order seen in the 905 region would have had a disastrous effect on property owners in Toronto. Property values in Toronto are anywhere from 2-8 times higher in Toronto than in surrounding regions. Take my parents for example; they (and I until August 25th) live in a nice but modest three bedroom house in the city. If Toronto’s property taxes had escalated in lockstep with Pickering’s for example, their tax burden would be close to $15,000 a year, and that is not within their means.

The fact is that Ontario is repeating a pattern often seen in the U.S. A states cut services during the 70’s and 80’s municipalities began picking up the tab, and the result was the de-urbanization of many major cities.

There are no simple solutions to the sort of problems that Toronto has (or continue to) faced, nor can we easily point fingers. Downloading was directed in a disproportional degree upon Toronto (and lest anyone think that’s Toronto-centrism talking, the numbers back it up), but that fiasco was symptomatic of a larger trend, the “pass the buck” conservatism which swept this province starting in the early 90’s.

]]> Cam Holmstrom on Whose City is it anyways?by: http://www.canadasdebate.com/2007/08/10/whose-city-is-it-anyways/#comment-2035 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 22:15:27 +0000 http://www.canadasdebate.com/2007/08/10/whose-city-is-it-anyways/#comment-2035 This crisis is just as much Mel Lastman's legacy as it is Mike Harris's. Every other municipality across Ontario raised their property taxes to deal with this, expect someone Mel thought that "Hey, this is Toronto, why should WE have to do that???" Harris is to blame for the downloading, McGuinty is to blame for not have uploaded those downloaded services, and Lastman is to blame for only thinking of his political self-interest, and not the best interest of the City of Toronto This crisis is just as much Mel Lastman’s legacy as it is Mike Harris’s. Every other municipality across Ontario raised their property taxes to deal with this, expect someone Mel thought that “Hey, this is Toronto, why should WE have to do that???”

Harris is to blame for the downloading, McGuinty is to blame for not have uploaded those downloaded services, and Lastman is to blame for only thinking of his political self-interest, and not the best interest of the City of Toronto

]]> Patrick Ross on Whose City is it anyways?by: http://www.canadasdebate.com/2007/08/10/whose-city-is-it-anyways/#comment-2032 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 20:37:47 +0000 http://www.canadasdebate.com/2007/08/10/whose-city-is-it-anyways/#comment-2032 If Mel Lastman didn't want to raise taxes, he shouldn't have built the subway line. The city of Toronto needs to learn to live within its means. If Mel Lastman didn’t want to raise taxes, he shouldn’t have built the subway line.

The city of Toronto needs to learn to live within its means.

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